Open City Streets

Summary of first dev meeting

2009-10-26T11:45:00.000-07:00

Posted elsewhere, but in case anyone is following only on the blog:

Preliminary V1 feature set is on wiki: http://wiki.github.com/ocs/OpenCityStreets/feature-list-for-v10
Client interface will use XHTML & CSS & JS, no flash.
jQuery will be used as JS Framework
UK db with spatial data is available for testing, accessible from OCS web server only. Directions and tools for creating your own database are in import directory in git.
Krato has expanded on kakaroto33’s map demo http://opencitystreets.com/users/krato/
Shihan has a demo user interface at http://opencitystreets.com/users/shihan/interface.swf
Thursdays at 21:00 UTC/GMT seemed to work fairly well for most, we will probably try to use this time for future meetings, interval depending on project activity

Going forward:

Aaron – finish registration/log in system, will use reCaptcha. In git this weekend. <- Done
CySlider and AngeloG – Work with Jay to further develop mathematical models
Prentice and Shihan – Create a high quality Photoshop mockup of OCS client layout, using Jay’s design as reference
Ice_Blade – Turn the PS mockup into a CSS/XHTML layover

First developer meeting

2009-10-19T18:29:00.000-07:00

Based on the schedule information entered on our web site, it looks like 8-10PM GMT is the best time for most of us.

We will have our first attempt at a developer chat this Thursday, October 22nd at 9PM GMT in our IRC channel, #opencitystreets on irc.freenode.net. You can access this via the web here: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=opencitystreets

If you can join us then, great! We will send a copy of the discussion to the mailing list for those that cannot attend, and I'll post a short summary to the blog.

Also, I've updated the "Feature List for V1" section on our wiki in an attempt to document the design decisions made so far. The wiki is at http://wiki.github.com/ocs/OpenCityStreets

Status Update

2009-10-15T15:33:00.001-07:00

Just a quick note about what we've accomplished so far and where we're headed:

Our development team is being headed by Mr. Nick Stallman. We've finished making decisions about things like programming languages and databases, and have moved on to more interesting things like implementation details. Our GitHub repository is at http://wiki.github.com/ocs/OpenCityStreets and code to import OpenStreetMap data into the MySQL form that we will be using can be found there. We also have some interesting client side work contributed by Haroldo Mitsumi Murata.

On the design side, Jay Shong has taken the lead role and is finalizing a feature set for our initial version (and already collecting ideas for future expansion :). The concept has grown from the simple original ideas into a game with great depth, but still focused on being easy to play for casual gamers. We hope to provide an experience that will entertain and challenge a wide range of players.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to the project! If you're interested in joining our team, please visit our forums or find us on IRC (#opencitystreets on irc.freenode.net)

Twitter and IRC channel

2009-10-06T13:22:00.000-07:00

There are a couple new ways to follow what we're up to with the Open City Streets project and join in with the discussion if you'd like to.

First, you can join our IRC channel, #opencitystreets on irc.freenode.net

You can use your favorite IRC client or simply click here for a web version.

Second, we'll be using Twitter to parallel any announcements here and possibly give more frequent updates as things progress. Follow us there if you prefer.

Important updates and announcements will continue to be made here on the blog.

Finally, thanks to everyone for all the great ideas contributed on the forums. We're exploring many interesting ideas there and you can start to see the glimmers of a fantastic game developing. We'll move away from brainstorming and start defining game elements later in the week, but for now, anything goes and all ideas will be considered.

Progress Update

2009-10-05T17:47:00.000-07:00

It's an exciting time for all of us interested in Open City Streets. The new forums (http://opencitystreets.com/forum) already have several interesting discussions. Please post all future comments on game related issues there, rather than on this blog. I will continue to post any important news or announcements here.

For developers, we've nailed down some aspects of the technologies we will use in the new game and are working to finish up with this task so we can start the real work :)

There is still much to be decided in almost every aspect of game play. If you'd like to contribute your thoughts, now is the time. We will start finalizing an initial feature set in the near future.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to share their opinions and ideas, and hope to hear more from you in the future.

Forums online

2009-10-04T21:24:00.001-07:00

We now have forums available at:

http://www.opencitystreets.com.

Let's move discussion there where its easier to communicate.

I didn't want to step on any toes by replicating comments, but if you've made comments on this blog please feel free to copy - paste them into the new forums.

Thanks to everyone who has volunteered already, and if you're just joining us and have development experience to contribute, please send a note to opencitystreets@gmail.com

Developer Update

2009-10-04T08:29:00.000-07:00

Ok guys, we have several developers interested and a lot of great suggestions already. We're also hopefully going to have a forum available soon so discussion can be easier than this blog allows.

Before we can "dive in", a few choices need to be made. Obviously we must have some sort of storage backend, some server side code, and some client side code. A natural choice for managing all this is one of the MVCish frameworks out there, but which one depends mostly on the language of choice.

So far PHP and Java have been suggested. I personally would lean towards Java given the complexity and security needs of this project, but I'm sure PHP could also be made to work. Luckily most of you who have responded have indicated a wide range of skills and a willingness to work outside of your personal favorite systems, so I think we have the opportunity to chose based on the most suitable framework without upsetting anyone.

Priorities for a framework would be scalability and strong AJAX support. No need to make things hard on ourselves :) Of course that still leaves many options. If everyone could think about the options out there and which they would suggest, we'll make this topic #1 when a forum becomes available.

Seeking Developers

2009-10-03T07:59:00.000-07:00

If you're interested in this project and have some time to share, we are looking for talented folks, specifically with skills in PHP, MySQL and AJAX (update: this was just a first guess at technologies to be used, by no means final :). You can contact me at opencitystreets@gmail.com or simply reply to this post. And if you have other abilities you'd like to contribute, please don't be shy :) Depending on how far we get with this, we'll be needing all kinds of help.

Cost Concerns

2009-10-03T06:28:00.000-07:00

A common reaction to the idea of an open source city streets game is "But how would you pay for the hosting costs?"

This is not a major concern for me. First, we're a long, long way from needing to worry about it :)
But even if we had some code ready to start playing with, it won't be a serious problem, and it probably won't be the developers problem.

Consider popular open source projects such as Apache or Postfix. This software is used to run millions of web sites and email servers. Some of them are for-profit, some are not. It's not the developers concern.

By creating an open source city streets game, we similarly provide software that can be used to run a server. Any one is welcome to grab a copy and see what they can do with it. Perhaps some will use donations or banner ads to fund the game, others will run a small game with friends on their personal server, others will attempt to provide a subscription or fee based site. There are even examples in other open projects that allow volunteers to mesh their servers to create a single virtual world. It doesn't matter. If the game is fun and works well, someone will provide it to people who want to play, and anyone will be free to run their own game if they don't like the offerings of others.

OCS ideas - Cheaters

2009-10-03T03:49:00.000-07:00

Cheating in Monopoly City Streets is almost legendary. For days the leader boards were dominated by cheaters, perhaps many of the players still there are cheating to some degree.
Initially I was put off by this, but as the weaknesses of the game became apparent, the cheaters provided an interesting and entertaining element to the otherwise boring game play.

Obviously, any serious game must deal with cheating players much better than MCS did. Being an open source project, the general "will" towards the game would be much friendlier and I believe the number of cheaters would be much, much lower. Still, there are always some who enjoy bending the rules.

Open source projects have the advantage of many eyes on the source. Hopefully this would lead to better design and easier to fix bugs. The lack of any real validation during registration is one problem that would be simple to correct. Many of the "cheating" bots are simply fixing problems in the game (Auto building, defending against hazards, etc). I'm sure some of this stems from how boring the MCS game is as well. Many people created multiple accounts simply because a single account provided little entertainment, especially in the first few days of the game. Another reason for multiple accounts and other cheating was "keeping up with the neighbors".. if one group of players gets away with it, the only way to compete is to do it as well.

In summary, I think an Open City Streets game would have less trouble with cheating and an easier time dealing with it. The devs would need to be watchful in the beginning, but it may be that when bugs are actually fixed, they are less prone to being exploited.. who knows? :)

OCS - Chance

2009-10-03T03:39:00.000-07:00

Unlike MSC, in the original Monopoly game Chance cards were not the primary element of chance. The roll of the dice and subsequent move provided most of the game flow and was entirely chance based. Each move could spell disaster for one player and riches for another.

Recreating this in a global game with many players (who are not online at the same time) is difficult. Perhaps this is why MSC made such a half-hearted attempt. Since some players will become much more powerful than others, and new players will join the game already in progress, a direct analogue to the original dice system seems impossible.

I don't have any good ideas here. The thought of "visiting" another players property is interesting. Certainly the current MCS system of chance is horrible. Perhaps searching for or purchasing streets could require a "visit" to neighboring properties somehow. Maybe someone else has an idea?

OCS continued - Tax

2009-10-02T23:47:00.000-07:00

Ah tax.. one of the most hated aspects of both life and Monopoly City Streets.

Using tax to limit the number of streets a player can control is just ridiculous. Rather, tax should be a way to challenge players to build smart and control exponential growth.

Streets should require a base tax based on their potential income, probably length and number of intersections. This base should be high enough that a street will cost the player a considerable amount of money if not developed. It should not be terribly difficult to make a profit, but discourage hoarding of streets. A good rule of thumb might be that a street filled with the cheapest of buildings should just break even.

The second source of tax should be income, regardless if from rent or trading. Perhaps this should be a fixed rate, or maybe there should be "tax brackets" that correspond to net worth or daily/weekly/? income. These brackets could result in players manipulating their income to avoid tax, which might be an interesting aspect of the game.

There could be fees for certain operations in the game as well, for instance a posting fee for auctions, a demolition fee, etc.

More OCS ideas - Trading

2009-10-02T22:41:00.000-07:00

For an effective trading system, especially one in a game where properties have different rent potential for different players, we need something more like ebay than like the current MCS system.

First, the seller should be able to post a public starting price and a private reserve. optionally a buy it now price. The seller can determine the length of time for the auction. I'm not completely sure but I think bids should be public.. or maybe the seller can opt for a silent auction. These details could be better thought out by someone with more auction experience than I have.

Second, the seller should be able to package multiple streets in a single auction. This would allow a player to sell an entire area that they have developed, which obviously could be more valuable than any of the streets alone. This creates an opportunity for the player to make great profits through smart buying/development. I think this would also extend the long term potential of the game. After rising in net worth through buying and building on streets, one can start to participate on a large level through smart buying and selling of larger areas of the world.

Finally, there should be a central "auction area" where a potential buyer can search for auctions matching certain criteria, again much like ebay. This assists with the higher level play where a player might be doing very little building and focus more on building wealth through trading alone.

Ideas for OCS, take 1

2009-10-02T18:14:00.001-07:00

In the original Monopoly game, the basic strategy is to control entire sets of properties. Even better, control contiguous sets of properties so that you increase the chances of a player landing on one of the properties you control. This fundamental concept is missing in MSC. Here are some ideas on how to provide something similar in a global street game.

First, rent must be based not only (if at all) on street length, but on how many other streets in the area or intersecting the street are owned by the same player. One way to do this would be to value streets based on the number of intersections they have, and then count intersecting streets owned by the player towards a rent multiplier. I made a post to this effect on the MCS blog and received encouraging feedback from other posters.

For example, by making each player owned intersecting street add some amount to a multiplier, you encourage players to own grids of streets so that you maximize the multiplier for a given number of streets. Owning 2 streets, the maximum rent multiplier is given by any two streets that intersect. But with owning four streets, the maximum rent would be obtained by finding two sets of two parallel streets that intersect, a grid type arrangement. This expands to any number of streets, always the most valuable arrangement is to control a grid of streets in a single area.

This system would strongly reward players who manage to control an area of space. It also naturally makes cities with many close by intersections more desirable than long empty roads in the wilderness. I'd be interested in any system that accomplished this goal, whether it resembles my intersection based model or not.

Another important aspect of the original game is that a particular street has a different value to each player. A street that is the final part of a set owned by player A is worth much more to them then it would be to player B who owns none of the set. A system where a single item can have different perceived values to different players is essential to a good trading system. The current MCS system gives every street the same value to every player, and leads to little competition or trading until valuable streets are exhausted. A good game would have trading as an important aspect at every level.

Well those are thoughts for now. Comments and better ideas are welcome.

Welcome

2009-10-02T18:01:00.000-07:00

This is an attempt to gather information and ideas about an open source game similar (but not *too* similar) to Monopoly City Streets. Both the maps (google) and street data (open street maps) used by MCS are available to anyone, so an open game is within the realm of possibility.

Any news about (or suggestions for) such a game are welcome here.